Comments on: AB3: Conversation 1

By: David

David — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 16:05:31 +0000

Group Discussion
Accountability (who is responsible)
Peer Review – incredibly important part of work (short time line/ borrowing from other (plagiarism)/ sending it around and then the sea of red)
Risk of writing at work (unsafe/ legally binding/ lose contract)
Is the Academic work accountable to prepare people to function in the workplace?
In the classroom context in having more access and more collaborate/ resistance to the red but the need for students to more accepting to the feedback process and the ethic of collaboration (mine vs. shared)
Seems like one of the things the new employer needs to give new employers positive templates and examples
Ask kids to write for audiences but we do not ask them to figure out what they don’t know and who they are writing for
The practice of focusing on your goals and follow through
Important for employers to take responsibility to the writing in the workplace
Job is the Job and it is important for them to get it done (boiler plate)
A B students are able to adapt but c students have difficulty to get by the divergent concepts
The responsibility is on the students to transition and it makes it difficult for lower level students
The question is how can university can assist students to work through the difference and change or is it at the class
the push for learning outcomes is trying to push for that (ie. nursing programs)
the conversation cannot leave the low level learners out and focus too specifically on the university professional type student

By: Dorothy

Dorothy — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:52:23 +0000

making rubric and evaluation terms that connect more to the workplace, i.e. excellent, OK/pass, fail/not satisfactory
excellence matters in the workplace, not acceptable results in consequences, i.e. ultimately firing as extreme consequence
how many drafts are needed in time critical workplaces and their deadline and productivity expectations/demands
time constraints in class for formative evaluation
exploring and allocating time to planning & drafting – drive behaviours to move away from writing finished copy
does process time get lost in the workplace?
reflective assignments aimed at metacognition for students
design instructional materials to teach skills rather than worrying about 1-1 matching, which you’re never going to get, near transfer works well enough
“what works here” or corporate culture is individual and can only be learned in situation, on the job
looking at past examples for concepts – how do you learn to conceptualize?, see patterns?, pull examples from their life concepts to illustrate
motivational keys – what do they want to do? difficulties in group size in high school and college classes to create assignments that reach everyone
writing across the curriculum – it’s everyone’s job not just the “English teachers'” job
writing has been removed from science curriculum – message is that writing doesn’t matter
employers could do better to support entry level workers in writing and transition
business case for writing instruction in the workplace?

By: Laurel Madro

Laurel Madro — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:47:50 +0000

Random thoughts from our table..
Exposure to many different variety of mediums and text is important..
Do an activity in a different formats different contexts..
As many simulations and presentations you try to do.. writing for different purposes and applications is necessary…
You have to identify your motivations when you are at work.. what is at stake? There is more risk.. costs, legalities, misunderstanding.
Peer editing, 360 degree evaluations also simulates the workplace. Group task of writing… play nice and participate..
Peer evaluation worked well in an example of a post grad course where students read each others papers.. learning was multi level.. learn to write but also learn the concept.
Example 2.. job with a lot more writing… get something back from a peer edits and covered with red.. and felt alarmed.. sharing and accepting this feedback is a huge part of the job.. evaluation from everyone.. not just the teacher..
Letter writing to parents.. English major wrote a letter and it was not understandable in plain language.. have to have the reader in mind. Write for the funder etc.. and write for the type of reading.. are they going to read it for detail or do they scan for key information.
There is no book about how to do this…
Is peer review a good option in terms of helping people with writing…mentoring on a one on one basis…friendly feedback
Academic writing often is a bit “flowery” especially people from commonwealth countries where training is in English.. summery longer than the original article.
Bring in relevant workplace documents as examples.. teach how to write an email..
writing different things.. info messages for example..
No one has time to read a long report.. we don’t have time to go through a lot of text.. recommendations key.. not process..
Language is key.. and volume.. once it is written it is permanent!!
Writing operating procedures.. peer review and review form organization… nothing i had ever done to write..
different ethical standards in workplace.. plagerism is defined a bit differently.. take chunks from various places for because of language.. find the right information

By: Kaesy

Kaesy — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:47:02 +0000

Who holds the responsibility for development writing as an foundational, or essential skill?

The employer- to target present gaps?
The educational sector- to better train so those exiting the process are more able and apt to be strong writers?
The individual- how do they find a way forward if not already clearly defined internally or externally?

By: David

David — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:46:30 +0000

a school group roles are designated and delegated
but it is completely different in the workplace…
work and school collaborate in very different
work is product driven while school is marks driven

By: David

David — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:43:54 +0000

Writing in the Workplace
in some places workers write but it then goes through other workers and departments and then it is changed as it moves through levels
changes could be structural, information added or taken out, condensed
Work writing has many people involved while most academic is individual
There is shared responsibility but there is specific responsibility with that first person
There is also the distinction of more ‘in-house or community’ writing and more ‘public’ writing

By: Kaesy

Kaesy — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:41:55 +0000

Idea of First Aid training, base level for all employees. Do it once and due diligence is achieved. With writing it seems more of a noble pursuit worthy of longer term support. Not as willing to let this go and determine the due diligence is done. Still writing training can be for purpose, factory worker production line writing perhaps, the training need is one-off easily delivered and done with- per se.

By: Kaesy

Kaesy — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:39:08 +0000

How to enable transfer? Employers tend to focus on logistics such as roles, responsibilities, job duties NOT finite writing skills. Idea of explicit exposure or modelling of the desired needs could benefit new workers. Also mentoring could be of benefit. In house PD programs also useful. Extended internship and practicum opportunities could be of benefit.

By: Paul Brinkhurst

Paul Brinkhurst — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:37:20 +0000

TABLE ALPHA Present: Cindy Messarus, Theresa Wall, Stephanie Morin, Chris Harwood, Paul Brinkhurst

Speaker: Doug Brent

Writing is incredibly situated. Contect, purpose and motive matter.
Ref: Worlds Apart
School/work are not well connected contextually.
Learn here >>> use there is not a model that works well.
Essentially work place simulations in the classroom do not prep writers for the real world (1984, Feedman, Adam, Smart)
Writers could transform their learning to apply it to the workplace. Re-inventing expert practices was necessary on the job as part of performance. (2004, Smart, Brown)
Experience is most transferrable when learned in a long term sustained environment. Metacognition is certainly a valuable practice. (1989 Salmon, Perkins)
On the job people get good at looking at past work to help them get the job done.
This reflects what students do all the time.
Note -the work response is not what is needed in the academic search model.
Need in class – clarity and concision
Needed at work – multitask and do it on the fly
IE students prepare themselves for work despite university ( scribe’s own comment)

Group discussion:
– does it depend on what the classroom is – ie university vs academic upgrading, vs workplace education
– maybe group problem solving. Does it work in every envirnoment.
– students could practice these skills, ie web drawing, mind mapping
– content not important as much as process
in the full sense university as a whole teaches these things, not specific courses. Maybe don’t expect courses to do it. Look at university in larger context.
– Work place is more based on other templates.
– does this apply to lower literacy at all?
– Probably, but more likely to ask people vs looking for products. Some disagreement, if shame stops them asking.
– Workplaces often do not use clear language – that is a problem.
– In professional context and entry level context processes may be quite similar.
– coop model – involving the real workplace – very good.
– practicum experience in teacher training much more valuable than university class work (opinion)
– need a mix of both content and direct experience.
– use of work place mentors is good. Need constructive feedback.
– Important for interns to know the ‘key’ pieces ina companies processes.
-Can employers afford this investment? Big banks etc yes, smaller business?
-

By: David

David — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:36:40 +0000

What are the writing skills needed in the workplace?
Why are some workers better writers?
How do you know what you know?
From an instructor perspective writing is not something that we talk about.
It is difficult to talk about writing that because we do not have the language to talk about writing
Too often the bulk of discussion sometimes just focuses on mechanics and grammar
There is movement of Threshold Concepts that is looking at things needed to be successful