Comments on: Conversation 1 https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations Conversations about Writing in Secondary and Post-secondary Contexts Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:49:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1.7 By: Lisa Haynes https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-265 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 17:10:41 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-265 Activity: “Maligne Canyon”

Again, what kind of assignment was this? What was the purpose? We feel as if it may have been an idiosyncratic assignment that “strangled the student,” and we weren’t sure if genre and audience expectations were communicated clearly to the writer

– conflict between aesthetic and scientific (though they can work together in general, just not here)–the latter may be easier to follow, and the former is more enjoyable
– in the writer’s defense, the aesthetic parts are in the introduction, which, if two genres are combined, may be appropriate
– descriptive language also integrated into science parts–many of us liked the language
– some of us preferred the first (subjective, emotional, aesthetic) half; some of us preferred the (scientific, citational, objective) half–some felt the latter was “more academic,” but others pointed out that such an assessment depends on genre and expectation.

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By: asif https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-264 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 17:10:30 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-264 - The ‘Marijuana” article started off strong but there was no sustain. The grammatical errors started can get to the reader after a while. The scientific evidence was not very good.
– The police say that marijuana does not guarantee that the user will become an abuser of serious drugs but every serious drug user started with marijuana. In fact, of course, most marijuana users do not go on to become serious abusers.
– Teachers can smell marijuana on the student and do not want such students in the classroom.
– Student is very passionate and it was a miracle that the student did not take a tone but remained very respectful. Even so, there is a very strong voice in the piece. It actually reminded me of the conversations in my high school classes. One time, a teacher told us students to go out to a park and start smoking pot in very large numbers. They would not be able to arrest everyone so the marijuana laws would not be enforceable.
– But, the students does not provide true facts but seems to have made a lot of stuff up to support the position. The spelling and composition errors interfere with both understanding and flow. Other times, the spelling was amusing.
– Student had sentence fragments, but the student seems intelligent enough to be able to overcome the easily, fixable problems.
– However, it is a struggle to read. It might not be as easy to fix as some might think.
– Clear disagreement over this. Some people think it was easy enough to follow despite the writing problems.
– What does “morals” and “real criminals” mean? Terms need to be defined better.
– Student has done research but there are no specific citations!
– We need the assignment description to know what the student was asked to do.
– Class setting might be best way to learn spelling because the student can use spellcheck at home. But, we do not know the context. If this is a three month research assignment, then it is less impressive.

“Maligne Canyon”
– It’s very boring. It seems like the student is trying to use words to make it sound like more than it is so the teacher might like it. The writing seems forced.
– Did person actually go there or just get something from internet?
– This could have been written in half the space. It is redundant. There are weak vocabulary choice – a lot of “very’s.” The reader gets everything they need in first paragraph. It sounds like the student had a number of words target that needed to be reached.

– It does read cleanly. Compound sentences, good use of transitions were all present. Logical flow to what is written. Excellent use of subheadings and topic sentences. Student does seem to know what he is talking about. It seems that the student was writing to the assignment description.
– No sentence fragments. Few grammatical errors. BUT, there is no voice.
– The essay does not engage the reader so s/he falls asleep. The essay says it is the writer’s observation, but, in fact, the observation is that of a person who saw a photograph. But, it might have been the writer’s photograph. Expectations would change if we knew what the assignment was.

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By: F Rice https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-263 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 17:09:28 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-263 Discussion from the whole group (Maligne Canyon)

Strengths:
– vivid language, would make a good travel brochure
– organization makes sense, follows the structure of the image
– direct and easy to read
– nice use of complex sentences and punctuation
– coherence is excellent
– inconsistency in language (vivid imagery to sterile language) – commenter blames the institution (!) because of the insistence on bland language in the sciences – the student’s passion for the site is coming through in jarring ways
– the student speaks with authority
– feels like the interpretation of a photograph

Weaknesses:
– the sense of purpose is not directed and could be developed more clearly
– describes but does not engage the reader
– there could be more consistency
– transitions could be stronger
– conclusion and discussion of drainage systems much stronger than the introduction, which is lacking a clear purpose
– provides a good contrast – difference in tone when a student is or is not passionate about the writing (compared to Marijuana paper)
– turns into a data-dump, the ending could be tied back the actual observation/experience – inconsistency between two halves

– again, if we knew the genre we would be able to understand it more. Maybe the assignment asks for two different sections.

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By: roger https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-262 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 17:08:15 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-262 Maligne canyon
Values:
detail, description
Imagery; punctuation; transitions; “academic” as a good thing;
student knew what they were talking about (authority)
30-2 student assignment: interpret a photograph
clear sense of purpose

Problems:
-inconsistency between the aesthetic and the objective; some disagreement among the audience about this point
-doesn’t engage me
-deceived as a reader: is this an actual observation of the place or of a photo?
-tough to read the first section–didn’t know the purpose right away
-lack of passion here made it boring; but this is maybe a function of the assignment; plus do we have to be emotionally invested?
-encylopedia kind of writing

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By: klagrang https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-261 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 17:05:49 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-261 Maligne Canyon Observation
– not sure if this is academic or esthetic
– focus unclear: lots of topic s and ideas that were introduced without substance.
– got boring towards the end, but the headers gave more focus once they wire introduced
– is this s scientific or poetic?

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By: faerber https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-260 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 16:57:18 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-260 Maligne Canyon Observation

Preliminary:

-Boring but does the job.
-Or: not boring, but loopy.
-Personal interjections a bit confusing
-some descriptive language disrupting (v. augmenting) overall “objective”
voice? Moments where the text “surprised” us. Would like the author to
decide on genre/voice (how much of this is anecdotal v. scientific?
Aesthetic/poetic or just, well, dry)
-Unevenness of voice vs. description itself
-Comparing vegetation and grand canyon: is this an accurate/possible
description in this context?

Concluding:

We do get a good sense of what this place is like. We also get: succinct explanations and logical organization.

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By: roger https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-259 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 16:56:49 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-259 Maligne Canyon
Liked it–clear and organized. Within the content of an observation included the effect on the viewer. Last half got technical but still had flow [pun intended].
Observations followed by the parsing of them.
Interesting and read well; having been there, it really does describe it well.
Picture: would be difficult without it. Refer to it earlier?
Transitions: a bit awkward and clunky.
Starting with the atmosphere then the technical; structure given in the assignment?
Observations disconnected–first time through reading.

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By: F Rice https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-258 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 16:56:36 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-258 Second reading: Maligne Canyon Observation

– again, we don’t know what kind of assignment this is or what class it is for
– written to a grade five level reader, could fit in a textbook
– this is just a description – there is no recommendation, analysis, etc
– if this is meant to be a description in a scientific context, the diction should be more advanced – it should be more than just visual, avoid phrases like “many scientists believe”
– the student is trying to make it rich
– there are no mechanical errors, but there is a confusion of purpose. What is the objective of the writing? Not even the student knows (see “my observations and research”)
– it feels like this student has been reading a very different style of writing than what they are supposed to be turning out – their exposure to this discipline has been found in textbooks only – genre-blurring and a lack of clarity
– as teachers, are we clear about what we want? Do we communicate this effectively to students?
– reads a bit like a travel brochure

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By: david https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-257 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 16:54:33 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-257 Malign Canyon:

Things we liked:
imagery — well written at the beginning.
some good transitions at the beginning
opening is stronger than later parts
takes risk with sentence structure (leading a sentence with because).
Defined terms well.
Shows passion in writing (for science or geography)
Research was woven in nicely.
Liked the representation (picture) so you could picture the landscape as you read through the rest of the text.
Headings used to organize text.

Things we didn’t like:
because at the beginning of the sentence in (solutions) is off putting.
some concepts were not developed clearly enough
the purpose of some paragraphs were not always clear.

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By: F Rice https://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-256 Sat, 06 Apr 2013 16:42:05 +0000 http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/conversations/?page_id=176#comment-256 Discussion comments from the whole group:

Strengths:
– when students are passionate it comes across in the writing
– this student understands paragraphs – each one is its own idea, there is an internal organization
– student stays on topic
– student understands the need for evidence, tries to temper emotion with facts
– solution to eating disorders and phrase ‘Canadianize’ show creative thinking
– student uses creative diction, ‘forbidden fruit,’ and has a very strong voice all the way through
– student has a very strong position statement, there is a base to work from
– subtlety of thought shows great potential
– ideas are there even if mechanics are not, there is a clear purpose and it is very persuasive
– this is a perfect draft or ‘letter to the editor’ essay

Weaknesses:
– fine tuning, spelling, sentence structure are distracting – lack of core skills
– the student may not know who the audience is
– author needs to substantiate what (s)he argues, evidence is pointed at but not provided
– similarly, the student could also develop what (s)he means in the discussion of morality
– ‘talk radio style’ (could also be a strength – tone) but how do you ask the student to fix problems without ‘breaking their heart’
– feels like a free-write
– work on specificity and define terms (e.g. ‘real criminals’)

– we don’t know what the student was asked to do, this would help us contextualize the piece – ‘judging the bicycle for not being a car’ – could be an exam context

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