How do we and how might we support adult students as they move through education and training and into the workplace?
12 thoughts on “AB3: Conversation 4”
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Alberta Writes:
Conversations about Writing in Secondary and Post-secondary Contexts
group discussion
the challenge of a weaker writer to move into a situation that they must write – collaborative writing is critical (however it is a real challenge in the classroom)
high schools have the possibility for evening work but there is the divide due to age/program/funding
it is bigger than just writing and the need to move beyond independent areas
we are not students so we learn or just a worker so we work but we are learners
realizing that there is a real pressure on people to always be switching jobs and that we need to manage our learning but employers need to support employees in a positive space –
a learning environment and a working environment need to share the same space
the global economy and knowledge economy and like it or not it is only going to accelerate and the pressure is only going to increase
practitioners are also in rapid change as our work is going to change in 5 years and then again
we need to be our own change agents
feedback to students is totally inconsistent and this is confusing – it is the difference between students criticism and critique through engaged conversation
Alpha Table : – )
Same group.
1. Is there a lowered standard of writing today? Is it lower or different? Is it a perception?
2. Most assessors in non-writing courses are looking at content vs grammar etc. so feedback is not consistent.
3. Employers have very high expectations in many cases.
4. What is good writing? What does it look like? The boss sets the tone – does she set the standard?
How does the ‘ we are always learners’ comment sound to people in lower socio- economic circumstances who may see themselves as always working vs always learning? Is that label of life long learning one of privilege?
5. Students take criticism personally – comes with grade deduction. So see feedback as bad? Need to help make feedback part of a constructive process.
6. Many barriers that student’s face are re personal attributes (attitudes, accountability etc) -do we support them in developing those in structured ways?
How do we and how might we support adult students as they move through education and training and into the workplace?
Teach them how to learn, that there is a place to find information, how to find information, how to integrate information.
Make situations more realistic. Use relevant, up to date workplace documents and materials.
Foster critical thinking.
Be explicit in your teaching.
Different institutions have different focuses. Some are more focused on workplace.
Teach the process of writing, editing.
Fear of failure is difficult to overcome.
Integrate a collaborative approach to writing in the classroom.
Deborah Morgan’s “Writing Out Loud”.
Participatory writing.
Is there an instructional process around collaborative writing?
Teach the difference between criticism and critique. How to give feedback that can strengthen without demoralizing.
How do we and how might we support adult students as they move through education and training and into the workplace?
-To what extent would it differ from how students are currently taught in university-currently they are being taught to learn in university, however in some conversations the needs are more technological
-Confidence is again integral
-The tools of literacy vary, some are physical tools like paper as where others are being able to “tweet”
-A lot of people turn away from some technology because it may be difficult to learn at first if this is a skill you do not currently have
-Determination is a factor, particularly to learning independently
-Small victories can build on acquiring these skills
-Empowerment is key-Meeting learners where they are, making sure the learning is reciprocal, if they have the opportunity to share, that you respect the learner’s capacity as expert in things they are skilled at
-Humility needs to be a part of learning for both learners and instructors
-Ex. Using google Docs in the classroom-immediate feedback for the learners, supports the student’s learning because they can carry forward and less pressure
-Need to support learners in an environment where there is lots of feedback
-Gap between the student learning and the workplace learning needs to shrink
-Unfortunately people often view education and workplace as extremely separate, which impacts learners’ transition
-The scary piece of failure/not knowing
-Learning is threatening to some sense
-Learning is hard work
-How often can we say we “don’t know” in a workplace, is it safe to say you need to learn?
-How do you prepare with changes that are happening in the workplace or where your role evolves?
-It becomes your ability to learn vs. what you know, yet you have to know stuff to begin with
-Need to make it explicit in the workplace that we are all learners to encourage a culture of learning, to feel comfortable with taking on and embodying the role of a learner in the workplace
-LEARN OR DIE!!!
-Learners need to be engaged to retain skills
-Experiential learning helps students retain skills they’ve learned
-Showing learners the process of trial and error, through the muddy brainstorming, through the mistakes and various edits…This is the process of writing we often leave out but is extremely beneficial
-We need to demystify learning for learners, remove the perceived “expertise” of the instructor. –We need to show the learner that the instructor struggles as well
-Utilizing funny tools like “The Oatmeal” or “The Yuniversity” or using creative tools like Poetry Genius, Rap Genius, Rock Genius, and create “memes”
-Meeting learners where they are at
-Spoken word programs are very helpful as well to engage learners
-Build assessment pieces with the learners-ask them what should be included, build the rubric together to help them feel a sense of ownership over their learning and to have a voice in how they will be marked (Learners also got better marks because they very clearly understood the requirements of the assignment)
-Learning should include fun things like games, people learn better when they are relaxed and enjoying themselves
-Work can be a game, but can be challenging as well
every single person is needed in our economy and that is a reality that does not easily mess with the pace and turn over of information and positions
it is also overwhelming to keep up are instructors to support students
no longer a lecture but project manager
the skill is project management and that is what students need to know how to do that for themselves
teaching change management – as that is the only thing we can count on
it is difficult to plan for the future as it is so unknown
access to knowledge is very different…it is available on line and everywhere…it is about how to get it and manage it
rich and poor moving forward with be how you can navigate knowledge and education with its skills
we need a compassionate society to change that
not job gaps, not skills gaps, perhaps it is an experience gap. More opportunities to gain the experience needed in the workplace, perhaps through more internships. Govt plays a role (although already quite active in doing so) to broker support from business to make these opportunities happen.
Young people and Internationally trained professionals (immigrants) often face the same challenge, have knowledge and training, but not what is outwardly said to be needed by the workplace; young people lacking 2-5 years of direct experience; ITPs lacking domestic experience but have 10-15 years of high level experience in the field. Road forward for each could lie in intership-model types of training.
independence and problem solving are the important to supporting adult students
there is a psychological separation of school and home as work needs both skills to come together
it is difficult to have the words to describe what you know and if you don’t know how you do it (intuitive learning) it is difficult to discuss
it is all changing … length is changing and use of space
the speed of communication means brevity is critical and demanded in the workplace
however, some things must be communicated in long paragraphs
sometimes a text is good, or maybe a paragraph for a email or an attached letter for longer pieces or maybe the phone (perhaps the follow up email)
there is nothing more disheartening when you have a full message and get a one line
there is also a huge amount that we are reading and writings as people are doing more and more
another aspect of supporting people…it would be nice to have workplace to invest in workers…a different work culture
work place will invest in skill or leadership rather than writing and basic skill development…
the change in how employees are viewed as short term and that inhibits the need to invest
Learning to learn model – the meta-cognitive skill to be able to learn what they need to know
The demands on workplace is only increasing
there is stress around there are no job titles…things are more abstract and ever changing
the skills we need now need to be transferable
workers are already looking for the next thing
long term investment and retention is critical but we are not confident this will happen as workplace is project based and short term is the way things are going
competition is now global
Training is about learners identifying their own barriers. Have them identify, have them practice and make errors, re-identify and re-practice. Whole person development that allows better traction in their personal life, reconnection to school or training opportunities in the future and performance at work.
Sometimes skill change is hard to measure; value is hard to perceive as a credential isn’t always possible or well recognized. But the individual experiences benefits resulting from a more “social practice” type of driven learning. Self confidence, better accuracy, better results, less absenteeism and other intrinsic benefits are created through learning or training measures. Still tough to measure, but perhaps these can be expressed with assertions by the individual about what they learned. Create a voice for the learning if the learning isn’t automatically or easily vocalized/evidenced.
Agreement on the real level of familiarity of knowledge. We can’t be familiar with everything. Need to teach how to learn and absorb and apply strategies and finite skills
Curation of content, what to keep what to discard. volume of information we process require constant separation of the relevant to the irrelevant. Skill development around the way to do this is important.
Integrate phase!